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New direction for the English Kult line

 
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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 19:39
New direction for the English Kult line

7c has signed up for further licensing of Kult, and is planning to take the English Kult line in a new direction. Because of poor sales (that I guess it is because of distribution troubles), releases will be made available as PDF rather than as printed books - a practice which is quite common nowadays, I see.

The price for each item will probably be around 10-15 euros, depending on graphical content (it costs to hire graphics artist). Neko has mentioned that we may expect to see releases already in May...
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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 19:52
Hmm. Well, it's something at least. I had a suspicion they would make this switch after seeing how big rpgnow has become. I think it will boost circulation.



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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 20:49
Yeah, there are quite a lot of good games on http://www.rpgnow.com/ and I guess it's possible that Kult could be distributed there too...
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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 21:27
I don't see almost anything optimistic in this news, well, maybe excluding the
fact that we might see a little bit of new material released... I have a
bad feeling that the PDF releases will cease as soon as they'll run out of
already translated material. Do they really think that Kult will sell better as
PDF, than a normal, paper book? I sincerely doubt it. And what does it mean
that they will vary the price based on the graphic content? Didn't they already
bought the rights to use the images from previous Kult editions and the CCG
(not mentioning the images they probably bought for the french
supplements)? Again I think that on-demand printing would be the best
possible way...

I will buy whatever they release, even if it would be in .lit format - I still have
childlike faith that it will change something; That finally they will realise the
english languaged market is as broad as their (if not broader). For now I feel
that if someone is to blame for the very poor sales, then it's definately the
company. There are worse games on the market that have longer lifespan
than Kult. 7me cercle's predecessors managed to release excellent material
as, for example, the LoD rulebook. They have only managed to reprint the
second edition rules in two versions - for the players and for the GM's.

It would be a bliss for me if the situation would change, unfortunately I do no
longer have hope for this... :(



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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 21:35
There must be a lot of expenditure in paper publishing. PDF releases will have a far greater profitability, plus rpgnow has good filters that will allow every horror rpg fan one-click access to the game. It's like iTunes vs. high street music stores. It's the way of progress, better for the producer and the consumer IMO.



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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 21:54
Well, maybe you like i-tunes better Undie... I still prefer a high street music
store - the lack of paper and plastic kills one quarter of my enjoyment when
listening to music. It's just the same when I'm forced to print something out
of the net, like for example The Steel Heart (I can't stand reading larger
chunks of text on the screen...), and I always wonder how much better it
would look if it would be proffesionally published. That's the aesthetic
issue. Another - more earthly one is that I don't posses a credit card, and I
doubt I will in the predictable future. To buy something from the internet is a
big problem for me, not impossible, but still problematic. That excludes
everyone who doesn't have the opportunities I sometimes have....

And do you really think Kult in the online version will do that better? I agree
that for the more technicized countries there might be more people willing to
try an expansion for the game they do not know. But remember that Kult
operates with many exotic terms and concepts, which may be difficult to
understand for someone who didn't read the main rulebook. Difficult and
even repelling. I still think it won't sell as good as an regular edition, and the
7th Circle isn't very charismatic when promoting their games (in english)...



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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 22:23
I don't know man, I think it's just the direction the internet age is leading us in, and not just the rpg industry, but every entertainment industry. Think about it: music, film, comics, newspapers, magazines, nothing can resist the the change, and the naturally niche RPG industry can't cling to obsolete 20th-century notions of information dispersal if it wants to survive.

Time will tell. I do have reservations about the shift, ie whether the quality of the material will decline, and I too dislike the cost of home printing, but all things considered I'm glad our favourite hobby has undergone some evolution. Remember it's the message that counts, not the medium.



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[*] posted on 2-2-2006 at 23:16
Yeah, but notice that most of the companies still print at least minimal number
along with the PDF release...

I remember that there was a thread where we wondered who is the average
Kult buyer, and came to a conclusion that there are many "outside" this small
community, or even the internet; So do you really believe that, considering
their releasing "policy", they will translate any new material for barely 1000
people after they will run out of what they already have in english? And
remember here that they were never able to support their books with ads or
promotions. Almost all fuzz that is heard about Kult in english is caused by
the fans themselves. And sorry, but kult like following is not enough to sell
the books.

I also doubt the graphics are the real cost - they are already bought, or they
can use what was already made for the previous releases. Translations will
be much more problematic and expensive for them. IMO the only chance the
idea will work is releasing material that was never released in english before
and PROMOTING it - any other try will be probably not profitable at all...



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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 04:48
its good that they will sell pdf...bad i they will sell NO paperbooks...

They should look at http://drivethrurpg.com
Thats a pretty good distributionplace...one of the largest, most popular ones in the US as far as I gathered...



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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 17:14
Well, I would like to see new supplements and it does not enrage me that they will be pdfs. I don't know, zara2stra, why are you so vocal against the pdfs - why should it mean a decline in quality, because they anyway make a pdf (or another electronic document) before they print it, don't they? For example, I dowloaded a free copy of the WoD rulebook and it is better for me than its printed counterpart (and it takes less space on my bookshelf).
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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 17:34
It doesn't enrage me neither. It just dissapoints me, and dimnishes my faith in
future releases of new material. I also don't think it will lower the quality of
those publications, just the quantity of them... I also know that some prefer
electronic publications over the traditional books, but there should be an
option to choose - I for example, don't like to read longer texts on the screen.
So IMO, they should consider on-demand printing...

As for the sales, remember that not everyone owns a credit card, and not
every rpg fan checks shops like rpgnow, or the forums like we do. How will
they learn of the supplement if they won't see it on the shelf of a real/internet
shop?

Besides, how many of those pdf's will we see, before the whole idea will die?
One? Three? The company acts as if it 'had' to release those books, and not
'wanted' to do this :(



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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 17:58
Well, it does not disappoint me. In fact I think that it can stimulate the company to fare better, because the Internet distribution is easier than the normal one. Concerning the Kult fans who do not use the Internet: well, it is their problem. The second issue is that the rpg books are hard to buy in our part of Europe in a bookshop - I mean Poland, I had to go to Berlin to buy my copy of Kult, but it was before the Polish internet shops appeared - and you do not need a credit card to buy in rebel.pl, for example.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 18:16
Quote:
In fact I think that it can stimulate the company to fare better, because the Internet distribution is easier than the normal one.


Again, letting the pdf's sell themselves could be difficult...

Quote:
and you do not need a credit card to buy in rebel.pl, for example.


But rebel.pl doesn't sell e-books.

To conclude my useless rant: I really hope that you all are right and it will bring positive effects. The last thing I want say is "I told you", and I will be one of the first to praise that (if) I was wrong.




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shocked.gif posted on 3-2-2006 at 18:30
Wow, an update

I don't know if someone from 7eme Cercle payed attention to my rants, but we were finally given an update on the official english site:) Today when I checked it, the links to BitterReign and the Abyss vanished.... I hope this is a step in the right direction.

Note: despite the sarcasm, I really appreciate that 'something' has finally moved :)



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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 18:31
The way I see it, there's only one way to find out if it works and that is to just let it happen. The decision has been made, so there's not a whole lot we can do to lean weight on the other end of the scales. ;)

I'm not a big fan of PDF's myself, mostly because my printer has busted out on me now :(

It will solve one problem though, and that is accessibility. It's been hard to come by English Kult material here in Norway (and other places too, I understand), and I frequently come across people who wonder where they can find it in online stores - at least this will no longer be a problem.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 18:38
@Torb:
do you think there is a chance for on-demand prints?

Generally it would be really great if someone from the 7eme Cercle would
come over and wrote something on the forums, explained their motives and
intentions towards the future of english Kult. It would be easier for me to
come to understand the whole situation if they have simply stated what are
the problems with Kult in english - we are a very supporting forum, and I'm
sure that many users here would be glad to help in any way we can - it was
stated many times by various people here...



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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 19:03
Quote:
Originally posted by zara2stra
@Torb:
do you think there is a chance for on-demand prints?

I think that would be ridiculously expensive, though... It's the first thousand prints or so that are costly.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2006 at 19:51
You speak of usual offset printing, I thought more about the modern digital prints...



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[*] posted on 4-2-2006 at 16:15
I agree with Zara2stra.
I hate pdfs.
I need to feel and smell the book!
I┤m reading with every sense!
It┤s not the same if I have to print out all the pages.
I prefer REAL books!



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[*] posted on 4-2-2006 at 16:58
Like most , I hate PDFs as well. 7th Cercle's decision to move the english game line towards a PDF only format does look like a bad omen. The company has apparently ceased the Spanish version of Kult. Which has all of us spanish-speaking fans in the voids of uncertainty. How is the game fairing in other languages? Are new books ( even reprints) being released ? What's the status of the Inferno sourcebook?

I truly believe that Kult was destined from the beginning to be a cult hit in the once thriving RPG market. But in recent days , I don't know how long it can stay afloat in the world White Wolf and Wizards of the Coast barely dominate. In a certain way , Kult reminds me of the deceased Dungeons and Dragons setting "Planescape". Like Kult , "Planescape" is way ahead of its time. It confronts its bretheren with new ideas and possibilities. Those of us that have experienced the Planes , know that it is a truly unique and far-reaching experience. After WotC aquirred the D&D line , "Planescape" was discontinued ; falling in a copyrighted limbo. An online comunity of fans collectively called Planewalker.com
have taken it upon themselves to continue the setting. The've kept adding to the mythology of the planes. And are even writing a full blown 3rd Edition update of the setting ; with the semi-oficial blessing of Wizards of the Coasts.

After reading this thread , I can only begin wondering if this is destined to be The Last Cycle's place in the history of our beloved RPG. Will the responsability of continuing Kult fall on our collectivity?

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[*] posted on 5-2-2006 at 00:28
Btw:
What about the limited Edition of Black Madonna, that 7th Circle had promised?
Seems like they will not release it as a REAL book, will they?
Another broken promise... *sigh*



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[*] posted on 5-2-2006 at 00:47
How will they police the copyright on a PDF that can so readily be transfered and copied?



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[*] posted on 5-2-2006 at 03:54
They won't. Copying any pdf bought from RPGNow is as simple as right-click/copy file, and if White Wolf and Chaosium don't have any protection on their PDFs, then 7C certainly won't. In all honesty though, some Kult files floating around of the p2p networks might be a good thing.



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[*] posted on 5-2-2006 at 06:10
Quote:
Originally posted by Underspawn
They won't. Copying any pdf bought from RPGNow is as simple as right-click/copy file, and if White Wolf and Chaosium don't have any protection on their PDFs, then 7th Circle certainly won't. In all honesty though, some Kult files floating around of the p2p networks might be a good thing.


I don't think having Kult files in the p2p networks will necessarily help. What good is it to share a file named "Kult-LegionsofDarkness.pdf" or "Kult2daEdiciˇn.pdf" if no one will type in the word Kult in their Edonkey search bar? Kult needs advertisement. Good ol' word of mouth is not as good as it used to be.

Where there flyers for Kult:Beyond the Veil? What ever happened to them? I think posting those flyers in different websites and forums could help the game a bit. I'm a friend of my local comic book store owner . I'm sure she would put up some Kult flyers around her store , If I just managed to get my hands on some of them.




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[*] posted on 5-2-2006 at 10:19
Quote:
I don't think having Kult files in the p2p networks will necessarily help.

Yeah, were I to meet anyone who'll download the coming addon from p2p, I'll
personally rip the heart from his chest - the less pdf's sold, the least will it be
possible for the situation to get back to normal (meaning regular book releases).




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